New M4 batch - U-534 P1030680

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Grutte Pier [Wa Oars]~GP500

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Message 2745 - Posted: 1 Dec 2013, 12:39:12 UTC

Is it possible to say what % of the work that has to be done, is done.

A kind of scale in time looking at the rate of process from the last week/month(5-weeks).
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Thomas Hansard

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Message 2780 - Posted: 15 Dec 2013, 3:15:01 UTC - in response to Message 2745.  

Is it possible to say what % of the work that has to be done, is done.

A kind of scale in time looking at the rate of process from the last week/month(5-weeks).



+1
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thinking_goose

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Message 2782 - Posted: 15 Dec 2013, 15:03:16 UTC
Last modified: 15 Dec 2013, 15:14:47 UTC

I don't know how the work generator works, but if we just burn through the work units until they are done, so far we have:

3.46% of m4_vroln72_1 (3154338 of 91104000 units)

13.76% of m4_vroln72_3 (12544255 of 91104000 units)

14.98% of m4_vroln72_4 (6824530 of 45552000 units)

by working out % of units done, compared with total number of those work units.

work units validated last hour = 4666, so if this is relatively constant:

total work units = (91104000 + 91104000 + 45552000)= 227760000

227760000/4666= 48812.6875268 hours. or 2033.8619802833 days, or 5.56 years.

IF the hourly validation stays constant, I don't know how much it tends to vary. That doesn't mean the message will be broken in that time, it just means it could be, if there are no transcription errors in the cyphertext, etc.

There are probably errors in my calculation, but I hope I've got the right idea.

--EDIT--

I signed up because of the main text that described how I could help break the remaining Enigma messages. But after several weeks I've discovered that they have all been broken and now the project is taking on many other tasks not related to the original goal. I didn't sign up for that and am very disappointed that the main page no longer reflects the current status of the project, that's misleading. Therefore I'm discontinuing my help.


As far as I'm aware we're still breaking an Enigma message, I think it might be this one.
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davorp7

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Message 3054 - Posted: 18 May 2014, 15:36:49 UTC - in response to Message 2782.  
Last modified: 18 May 2014, 15:39:27 UTC

I don't know how the work generator works, but if we just burn through the work units until they are done, so far we have:

3.46% of m4_vroln72_1 (3154338 of 91104000 units)
13.76% of m4_vroln72_3 (12544255 of 91104000 units)
14.98% of m4_vroln72_4 (6824530 of 45552000 units)

Five months later:
4.9 % of m4_vroln72_1
29.3 % of m4_vroln72_3
17.6 % of m4_vroln72_4

Work units validated last hour falling (currently 2891) = to complete 64960 hours / 2706 days / 7.4 years!

Is the solution in one of these three sets of data? Or is it necessary to insert new data if these are not sufficient? Can a little clarification ;)

Hopefully that will be sooner!
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Profile TJM
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Message 3055 - Posted: 18 May 2014, 16:14:48 UTC - in response to Message 3054.  

There is no way to know if the solution will be found before exhausting the assigned workspace. Each walk through the keyspace has some chances to break the message.
Until the message is broken, no one knows how many walks (on average) are needed to break the message. It might as well be unbreakable using hillclimb alone.

Also, number of workunits validated per hour (from server_status) cannot be used to estimate batch runtime, as the WUs do not have the same lenght. The longest WU type is more than 4 times longer than the shortest one. This graphs shows more accurate data:

(live data)


During the recent Pentathlon event the average project speed peaked at nearly 21k WUs per hour, which is roughly 10 full keyspace walks per day:




M4 Project homepage
M4 Project wiki
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davorp7

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Message 3056 - Posted: 18 May 2014, 21:31:16 UTC - in response to Message 3055.  

Thanks for the graphs and information. Fingers crossed that we will come to a solution as quickly as possible :)
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Thund3rb1rd

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Message 3128 - Posted: 31 May 2014, 18:09:23 UTC

After some reflection, I think I tend to agree with CoolMaster some posts down - although I would hope I would be a little less whiney about it. I too "joined up" in part because of the draw of breaking Enigma messages, but also because of the possibility of using 21st-century distributed-computing technology to solve a 20th-century computing challenge. Now, it seems that the project has lost it's focus. Granted, one Enigma message is now the focus, but then what? Looks to me like we're simply burning through work units to be burning through work units. To paraphrase Spock in ST-1, is this all there is? Is there nothing more?.

I'm not quite prepared to simply dump this project. Burned through too many work units myself. However, absent any reason to continue simply burning through work units which may or may not be directed toward a long-term goal, I have directed BOINC to stop requesting Enigma work. For the time-being, I'll keep tabs on the project and see where it goes - if anywhere.

CoolMaster did have a good point about the home page, though. Definitely needs updating and maintenance.

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noderaser
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Message 3129 - Posted: 1 Jun 2014, 7:19:12 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jun 2014, 7:20:40 UTC

Well, there's not an infinite supply of Enigma messages, so the project by definition is going to be limited by the number of messages or fragments that remain unbroken.

I'm sure there are other cryptographic endeavors that could be taken up once the end of messages are broken, but notifying the participants of such a change would be prudent. However, for the time being, the project is still working on messages encoded using the Enigma.

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etiennef84

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Message 3149 - Posted: 10 Jun 2014, 20:57:35 UTC - in response to Message 3128.  

Well, I just signed up for this earlier today, and it did not take long until I realized that the info on the main page was completely outdated (!).

I have to agree with the previous complaints. It only takes a few minutes to update the main page with accurate and up to date information that is not not years old!

CoolMaster did have a good point about the home page, though. Definitely needs updating and maintenance.


When I realized the information on the main page was old, and that all messages had been broken, actually discontinued my contribution within a few hours...

Nevertheless, I was happy to find out later this evening that there still was some activity in this project, and that focus is on cracking an Enigma message!

But like I said before, please update the main page so that new participants actually can get some info about what they are contributing to. I'm sure it will make many of the (current and future) contributors happy! :-)
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pvman

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Message 3195 - Posted: 14 Jul 2014, 21:09:16 UTC - in response to Message 3149.  
Last modified: 14 Jul 2014, 21:10:13 UTC

Please update!!

From an historical and intellectual point of view, I would think there is quite a bit that could be said about the progress attained over the past SIX YEARS.

If anything, it may motivate more persons, with significant computer arrays, to participate.
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Polaxis

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Message 3360 - Posted: 21 Mar 2015, 13:05:10 UTC

I also would appreciate a small update. It feels definitely very lonely in this project.
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JamesW

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Message 3404 - Posted: 14 Apr 2015, 21:30:22 UTC

Updates are nice :)

Any news on a CUDA version? My i5 4670 seems to take around 30mins at dwfault clock per task - pretty sure my 970GTX could plough through even quicker ;)
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robin

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Message 3405 - Posted: 16 Apr 2015, 8:49:06 UTC

Hi

Is this project still running??

robin
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jaro2404
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Message 3406 - Posted: 16 Apr 2015, 13:46:10 UTC - in response to Message 3405.  

Yes, it is
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Profile [AF>Amis des Lapins] Oncle Bob

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Message 3409 - Posted: 24 Apr 2015, 21:50:28 UTC

Hello

Enigma was one of my first project, and by far the most interesting for me.

I thought it was over, because the last news was posted almost two years ago. That's why I totally stopped crunching on Enigma, switching on other projects.

If Enigma is still alive, could you please make a little news about it ?
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Profile [AF>Amis des Lapins] Oncle Bob

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Message 3410 - Posted: 24 Apr 2015, 21:50:32 UTC

Hello

Enigma was one of my first project, and by far the most interesting for me.

I thought it was over, because the last news was posted almost two years ago. That's why I totally stopped crunching on Enigma, switching on other projects.

If Enigma is still alive, could you please make a little news about it ?
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thinking_goose

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Message 3412 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 1:50:18 UTC - in response to Message 3410.  

We're still trying to break the last remaining message. Here are the latest stats

Briefly:

For a number of reasons, there is a chance the message will never be decrypted;

There is still a good chance that it will be;

There is still lots of work to do.

The Project Hoerenberg site was using some in-house software to break these codes, but they stopped for some reason. Also they never released their software, which is a shame.
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TBREAKER
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Message 3413 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 11:32:09 UTC - in response to Message 3412.  

We are very successfull in breaking messages. The last one was broken in January 2015. But it is not easy to break Enigma messages. We are still working... Regarding the software: Everyone who contact me get a free private (licensed) copy of my software. But I have no time to give any support or warranty. The software can not handle distributed computing.

Regards

Michael
-=> Breaking German Navy Ciphers - The U534 Enigma messages <=-
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Profile [AF>Amis des Lapins] Oncle Bob

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Message 3414 - Posted: 25 Apr 2015, 22:51:22 UTC
Last modified: 25 Apr 2015, 23:01:20 UTC

Well, if I'm right, there is still one message unbroken, according to Hörenberg (P1030680).
I'm glad to see that the project isn't dead, as it seems when you look at the date of the latest news on Enigma homepage.
I'll put back my computer on this project, unless you think the chances of breaking are more important with TBreaker software.
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Message 3415 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 0:18:43 UTC
Last modified: 26 Apr 2015, 0:29:21 UTC

Some information: The P1030680 (VROL NMKA) is the last unbroken message from "my" U534 collection. Dan Girard and I broke about 50 Enigma M4 messages from U534. You can read them on my project website: Breaking German Navy Ciphers. We broke the M4 with a mixture of "Turing Bombe" and "Hillclimbing". An M4 "hillclimbing only" break (ciphertext only) of P1030680 with my TBreaker software would take an unacceptable amount of time. I don´t know whether the enigmaathome.net project is still alive. Regarding to the server statistics it is so. A little "Hello" from TJM from time to time would be nice and polite ...
-=> Breaking German Navy Ciphers - The U534 Enigma messages <=-
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