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Jack Waugh
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Message 576 - Posted: 24 Sep 2008, 13:04:15 UTC

What is the status of knowledge of the possibility or impossibility that the plain of any of the messages in question survives in the records of the German military?
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Message 584 - Posted: 28 Sep 2008, 7:28:30 UTC - in response to Message 576.

What is the status of knowledge of the possibility or impossibility that the plain of any of the messages in question survives in the records of the German military?


Both broken messages survived in the war diaries of U264 and U623.

http://www.bytereef.org/m4-project-first-break.html
http://www.bytereef.org/m4-project-second-break.html


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Message 836 - Posted: 9 Apr 2009, 1:42:09 UTC - in response to Message 584.

How long would it take to use all the surviving war diaries and use them as cribs? Bletchley Park used that method to great effect. Even if it isn't the actual message, it isn't unlikely that the same words will be used. Has anyone even seen if there is a message with the same number of letters? Did the two broken previously have the same number of letters of ciphertext as recorded plaintext?

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Message 910 - Posted: 12 May 2009, 3:56:19 UTC - in response to Message 836.

Bump. Does this enigma support cribs?

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Message 914 - Posted: 12 May 2009, 12:35:35 UTC

I'd think the cribs are a good way to "check" the answer the computers are generating. This isn't a war situation, so we have the time to allow the process run it's course. We can then analyze why it took so long and see if the process can be improved (w/o using crib, of course).

Mike Doerner
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Message 915 - Posted: 12 May 2009, 19:14:11 UTC

Were the first two that broke the same number of letters as the ones in the German record? It would be cool if we could either match it or say that it will be an entirely new message.

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Message 1376 - Posted: 20 Nov 2009, 3:25:40 UTC

Here's the detail for the first break.

The actual plaintext:
<
vonvonjlooksjhffttteinseinsdreizwoyyqnnsneuninhaltxxbeiangriffunterwasser
gedruecktywabosxletztergegnerstandnulachtdreinuluhrmarquantonjotaneunacht
seyhsdreiyzwozwonulgradyachtsmystossenachxeknsviermbfaelltynnnnnnoooviery
sichteinsnull
>

And here is the actual message plain text from the war diary:

<
Von Looks:

Funktelegramm 1132/19 Inhalt:

Bei Angriff unter Wasser gedrueckt, Wasserbomben. Letzter Gegnerstandort
08:30 Uhr, Marqu AJ 9863, 220 Grad, 8 Seemeilen, stosse nach. 14 Millibar
faellt, NNO 4, Sicht 10.
>

As you can see there are many shorthand notations, abreviations, and numerals are spelled out as the ENIGMA keyboard had only letters.

Therefore the message length is not very well related from war diary to plaintext.


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